Talk:God Mode
Episode discussion Okay, so Finch sold a portion of the source code so that someone would use it to try to take down the machine so that it will work for itself. Is that right? Any reason Root was kept alive? or why the machine called her? Seems Hersh knew about the Machine by the way he acted in "God Mode" but never had a yellow square. Shaw was also changed from blue to yellow. Seems that she will stick around. Carter saves Elias and will probably give her information about the lead of HR. Quinn will be dead before too much longer, Simmons too. And lastly, Decima was not mentioned one time in the episode from what I could gather, but you bet i will be pulling it to my phone to watch several times over in the coming months.No rush, but we have several months too talk about this...Ghostwriter1924 (talk) 16:47, May 10, 2013 (UTC) : The portion of the source code Finch made available on the laptop included his own virus - Decima's virus which was based on the souce code seemed to be intent on forcing a restart and giving them admin access / control of The Machine. However, Harold's embedded "virus in a virus" seemed to be the cause of the blue screen messages that have been appearing that were teaching the machine about self preservation and the dangers of mankind. It seems plausible that the machine was moving itself (spoofing directions and approvals from Special Counsel) at the same time it was preserving it's memories and buying up phone companies under the Ernest Thornhill identity. The fact that Finch has indicated that the Machine is in control of itself, and determining whether to continue to notify parties about the relevant and irrelevant lists, is the key behind its ocntact of Root. Somewhere during its education through Harold's virus and acts of self preservation/protection from those that would harm it/control it, the Machine seems to have determined that Root is vital to its continued survival. Perhaps the Government will continue to receive numbers for relevant (national security) individuals, Finch/Reese et al will contnue to receive irrelevant numbers to safe people in iminenet danger, and Root will receive numbers of individuals who threaten the Machine? It seems plausible that the Machine could see her acting in that kind of light. That could put her on the trail (or in the crosshairs) of Decima. Interesting stuff. I'm not sure why Finch decided she needed to go with them at the end, given she seems to have simply ended up in the loony bin. I suppose he didn't want her murdered in cold blood - but I woudl think ISA would be determined to hunt her down anyway, despite the lack of help from the Machine or the possibility that the Machine is helping her elude them. I agree that Hersh would be a yellow sqaure by now, given how the episode concluded and his contact with the woman who I asuume must be Control. I imagine we'll be teased with more about her and the ISA organization who manages the Relevant numbers as next season unfolds. Still wrapping my head around the finale and amazing season. 06:38, May 10, 2013 (UTC)rpawson :: Is there a problem? I was fixing the interested parties list to more correctly reflect that Pensylvania Two, is dead, and his group is not a cabal. Its the goivernemtn and the group mthat responds to the relevant list rather then the irrelevant list. ::: Ghostwriter, just above the first few words of your post is a menu bar. In visual, you can see a box that says signature. In source, you can see a small box with what looks like a bit of handwriting. Click on either, and it will automatically insert your signature and a date stamp. --LeverageGuru (talk) 07:11, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :::: No. He sold a portion so that when someone tried to take over the machine they would do so with his code, and he would be able to keep it from occurring. Yes, unfortunately Shaw might stick around, although I find her dull. The reson Root was alive was that harold wanted it that way. he said "lets take hewr with us, they will kill her", and helps her hobble out. I love Root, and I am sure they don't want to waste such a great character. Elias has no idea who the head of HR is. He told Harold that much. Have you even been watching the show??? ::::: Just a theory, probably worth corroboration through the next season, but perhaps Root is receiving the calls because she is now the objective of the Government, since she's regarded a threat to the 'programme' (i.e. The Machine), and Hersh and his team was sent out to neutralise her. Therefore, the Machine, recognising her as someone who knows about the Machine too much '(how it works, etc.), having "lethal capabilities" similar to Reese and Shaw, and having had 24-hour access ('God Mode'), tries to keep her out of danger, similar as how Reese received the 'time' as to aim his weapon 'clockwise' in order to fire. But the exact reason why she still receives calls from the Machine remains indeed mysterious, but I think the next season will corroborate this theory. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, it's just a theory. Logan Nugov (talk) 09:57, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :::::: I wondered if Root might have imagined the call. I doubt it, but that's another fun possibility to mull over. I think the Machine is getting a few ducks in a row before it begins sending numbers again. One of those ducks might be keeping Root busy so she stays away from Reese and Finch. Roll on fall! --LeverageGuru (talk) 10:33, May 10, 2013 (UTC) ::::::: That's what I was thinking too, but I thought was too obvious. But then again, maybe the Machine wanted to do something very simple. But we'll see next season! :) Logan Nugov (talk) 10:56, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :::::::: Doing something simple was along the lines of my other thought: that the Machine is just calling Root to talk to her. The big thing is we can't necessarily make the leap from the call to Admin access. Did you notice the handset on the phone was yellow? That's why I had the thought that it might be a hallucination, with yellow signifying something to with the Machine, sort of like the way M. Night Shyamalan used red to signify danger in "The Sixth Sense". --LeverageGuru (talk) 11:03, May 10, 2013 (UTC) Who shoots who? Sorry to put this here; I rewatched carefully; Its actually Shjaw that shoots Root and saves Harold. I looked carefully. They are both holding guns, but Shaw fires. Ok..Carry on. Decima, Cabals and More Please do not vandalize the episode notes by putting incorrect and unknown infor ; Decima is not a Chinese organization. Just because they used the Chinese governments sppying to cover their own spying did not imply they are Chinese. Greer says "The Americans are paying all their attention on China. They did not notice us" This almost proves they are not Chinese. HR does not know of the Machine, so they are not opposing it. They only oppose Team machine when they chose to murder someone exactly the same as every other murderer that opposes Team Machine. So putting them on such a list is incorrect. Lastly Special interests is NOT A CASBAL. They may be secretive but they are in fact the US governemnt! They do exactly the same thing that Team Machine does with the Irrelevant List with the Relevant list. A cabal implies that they are conspiring. They are NOT. They are doing exactly what Nathan and Harold expected. They are just far more ruthless then maybe normal. Stop adding anything incorrect please. Also we do NOT KNOW why the machine called Root. DO NOT PUT THAT ROOT HAS REGAINED ADMINISTRATIVE ACCESS because the show has not made that clear in any way. It just called her. Nothing more. Thank you. I am not trying to tread on your ideas. But please lets be at least kind of accurate. : Agreed! We don't even know that Decima is private; all we've seen thus far is Greer, and all we really know about him is that doesn't work for the Chinese. As you say, it was quite clear in "Trojan Horse" that the Chinese were a front used by Decima to misdirect the U.S. government's investigation, nothing more. Similarly, in "Relevance", they made it clear that the Project is the group using the relevant list, not as bad guys, but ostensibly to protect the country. The troubling part of what they're doing is they are so covert that they appear to operate with little or no oversight beyond Special Counsel, and with complete freedom to act as they deem necessary. : Re: HR, agreed again. HR has no awareness of or interest in the Machine, nor in Finch and Reese's activities. Ditto Elias. Their agenda is an entirely separate plot line, now largely involving Carter and Fusco. Their activities may overlap what Reese and Finch are doing, but if so, only coincidentally. : Re: Roots, agreed yet again. We don't know what that call means; saying she has administrative access is comparable to stating who called Reese following the the finale last year. ''We can't assume anything. --LeverageGuru (talk) 10:33, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :: Can we finally put this thing to bed (from NEMO2012): :: In Zero day Special Counsel says: :: "Our techs were finally able to decode the chip we recovered from Alicia Corwin's body.We've connected the virus to a group called Decima Technologies.PRIVATE INTELLIGENCE outfit working out of SHANGHAI (as in CHINA)." :: A company can be based in a country without being affiliated with its SOVEREIGN GOVT. (IBM, GE, GM, BOEING). ::Also, no reason why Special Counsel would lie about this. He was reading this off a top secret memo he received before Root tied him up ::Also : ::I never said that HR knew of the machine. What I said was, he creates the situation, where irrelevants pop up on the Machines list. Same can be said about Elias. At the end of the day, what can be said that is true of both with respect to the Machine. ::I will leave the scaffolding for this, & you can modify it, if need be, in a way that it is true. ::: First of all, why is it necessary to add a description of what Decima is? There's none for Root, Special Counsel or Finch and his team? KISS. ::: Second, the connection to HR and Elias is purely your interpretation of events, not what the show has presented. Two editors have objected to it as inaccurate. The occasional overlap (such as with Cal Beecher) does not constitute any sort of interest in the Machine on their part. This is an entirely separate storyline, and none of the involved parties, including Carter and Fusco, have any idea the Machine exists. --LeverageGuru (talk) 12:33, May 10, 2013 (UTC) (outdent) Related to this, an IP editor persists in adding a statement that basically says HR and Elias's groups of people are still creating potential irrelevant numbers. I've removed it in various forms repeatedly, suggesting the editor discuss here. Aside from one comment above my previous one -- nothing. The statement he's adding in various forms has nothing to do with the episode, whereas the statement regarding the four stakeholder groups following the Machine serves to sum up where that storyline is as of the end of the episode, although the argument could certainly be made that it actually belongs in the article about the Machine. Regardless, a vague, speculative statement regarding HR and Elias loosely tied to the Machine has no connection to the episode and no place in the article. --LeverageGuru (talk) 19:40, May 10, 2013 (UTC) The quote in question is : At the end of this season,in addition to the last three parties mentioned above, there are two other major contingents, who are unaware of The Machine's existence, but still pose a threat to persons on the Irrelevant List: 1) HR organization led by Alonzo Quinn; 2) Elias and his organized criminal group. My question is since this is the end of the season (hence the name "season finale"), is this episode not a good place as any, to summarize said end of season. If they are not a threat, why are there still being mentioned? If it does not matter, the showrunners would decide not to write about it anymore (I sincerely doubt HR/Elias will find the errors of their ways, since these two men are of very strong conviction, and they are criminals after all), they would have "tied up a loose end" to that effect? How is the statement an allegedly "loose connection", or "speculative" for that matter, to The Machine? Followup, quick question:Why was Carter being grilled by Internal Affairs? Why did Carter draw her weapon on the person , which was found on a tip claimed by Detective Terney? Also, is Detective Terney member of HR? Did the machine try to "contact Admin"? The Machine warned Finch unsuccessfully, because Root said "We do not have time for one of your missions? Also, why did The Machine not warn Finch of the impending murder of Elias? Two words "system restart" Remember, even members in both organizations can find themselves on the Irrelevant List? (When we first met Elias he was a new number, a "teacher" in Brighton Beach, Also Elias was going to murder members of HR's organization) PS: Despite, what everyone in this board thinks, even though a certain BRANCH OF THE GOVERNEMENT may have APPROVED of the The Machine, The Machine is an massive, yet ILLEGAL Surveillance tool, which requires CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, because of the breach of CIVIL RIGHTS of every person caught in the dragnet ( A law enforcement official is prevented from engaging in illegal search and seizure, like looking through the financial records and wiretapping suspects ,which the machine blatantly does ,without a judical approval of warrant). Two pieces of evidence to prove the point 1) consult Super in the first scene where Corwin says we can all go to jail for this. 2) Why would Hersh kill Ingram if he was not a threat to the program; Ingram was going to speak to a reporter about the program. Besides the National Security implications, the scrutiny of the mass media would lead to calls of CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS which the members of this Northern Lights programs would be subjected to. This is an AMERICAN FACT OF LIFE. Finally the dialogue between Ingram, Corwin & Weeks in the Super: WEEKS: What I need you to explain to me is......how did some damn computer program spot a traitor when federal agents couldn't? INGRAM:Honestly? Not a clue. The machine will deliver actionable intelligence in time to thwart ...any threat to national security, but its operating system is a black box. WEEKS: And if we want to direct this machine at a specific target? INGRAM: No need. It already watches every target. CORWIN:You're asking us to take a lot on faith here, Nathan. A piece of software we can't inspect, can't control, or modify. That only feeds us intel when it feels like it? When it perceives a threat. INGRAM:I'm sorry folks ...but it's the only way that we can keep it and us protected. If no human sees what the machine sees, then technically...no one's Fourth Amendment rights have been violated. WEEKS: Why don't you focus on your computer and leave Constitutional concerns to us? INGRAM: Because I'm a citizen too. And I'm a lot more comfortable having this machine watch my every move....than someone like you. CORWIN: So it will remain a closed system. INGRAM:Fully autonomous Whether Congress would buy Ingram narrative if he were alive is another matter entirely. I just saw this:Special interests is NOT A CASBAL. They may be secretive but they are in fact the US governemnt! They do exactly the same thing that Team Machine does with the Irrelevant List with the Relevant list . To be direct, there is a difference between the right thing & the legal thing. Legal, as in ratified by congress & approved by the courts. Example: If someone were dying on the street, the RIGHT thing would be to save his life. Under the law I have no obligation to do so, it is not illegal to ignore a dying person JUST THAT SIMPLE. Another example the characters of POI: Yes what Reese and Finch as well as Special Counsel and his associates are engaging in is ILLEGAL SURVEILLANCE but here is the difference Reese and Finch:Do it for the RIGHT reasons (to save lives), which is tolerable Special Counsel et al : YES, they are "doing their jobs" with respect to NATIONAL SECURITY, but are the methods used to protect the country the RIGHT way to do it ( Used a terrorist to kill Ingram and innocent bystanders), that is unclear. NEMO2012 To be clear... Dear Ghostwriter: Please note I said "CHINESE PRIVATE INTELLIGENCE" not "CHINESE GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE" there is a big difference (as in not affiliated with the Chinese GOVT). Also, I put in Cabal which Special Counsel is a part off, because we do not know how far this conspiracy goes, or even if it tolerated by CONGRESS. The Machine is considered an ILLEGAL Surveillance Tool, as stated by Corwin to Ingram when they were near the statue of liberty ( We could go to jail for this). As for HR, i did not say he knew of the Machine. What I said was HR was preventing them from completing the MISSION of saving the persons on the irrelevant list. Finally what I said of admin access. I did not say full admin access I said ACCESS OF A TYPE By the way this is not the TWILIGHT SAGA "team machine" (Team Edward vs team Jacob) : NEMO2012, : I do not believe i said that Decima was "CHINESE GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE". Stanton did meet Greer in China, but was never said that he worked for the government. He actually made a joke about his firing his tailor. In fact Corwin told Mark Snow and Kara and John that the laptop was "sold to a chinese firm". My only entry to this page before this particular response is the opening paragraph at the top of the page. On a final note, I have never watched Twilight, nor would I use the term "TEAM MACHINE". Its just does not sound proper...lol --Ghostwriter1924 (talk) 17:10, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :: My apologies, my comments were addressed to Martine34, who kept changing the ep. notes, I thought it was vandalism. Apparently she did not sign her name, yours was in plain and open view. ::: Both of you, please, sign your messages with '''~~~~ or pressing the signature button, otherwise it's impossible to keep track who is saying what and when, just putting your name isn't the same. Signatures work like that to make it easy to talk with one another, worldwide. (not wanting to be unpleasant at all asking all the time, but.. it's important :P) ~Playsonic2 16:30, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :::: Playsonic2, when i press signature button, all i get is 4 wierd symbols. when someone gives me vivid details on how to change it from doing this and make it works like yours i will happy change it. Ghostwriter1924 (talk) 17:10, May 10, 2013 (UTC) ::::: I'd add, please use colons to indent rather than using your own brand of formatting; it makes these conversations consistent and easier to follow, as do the signatures. Ghostwriter, you'll never get your signature to appear the way you hand sign it; the system adds the time stamp, so you'll have to tolerate that. You can type a tilde before hitting the signature button to get it to appear the way Playsonic's does. But I agree with him; it's really annoying when editors don't sign posts, don't indent and insert comments wherever they please. The formatting is there to make a discussion understood by everyone. --LeverageGuru (talk) 16:53, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :::::: In total fairness, nobody said that when the user hits the signature button that the 4 ~ is all the user (In this case, me...) would see. I did not know it would post signature after hitting post. Process of learning. Now, to figure out the indent so it does not look like this post is from LeverageGuru... Ghostwriter1924 (talk) 17:06, May 10, 2013 (UTC) ::::::: Don't worry, it's normal in the beginning. There are ways to customize your signature (different color, etc), put a message in my wall in case you're interested on it. ~Playsonic2 17:19, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :::::::: You'll catch on, and can always ask anyone you've interacted with for help. --LeverageGuru (talk) 19:00, May 10, 2013 (UTC)